Friday, 26 September 2008

  • The largest consensus the world has ever known

        No wonder so many people, gentle and kind people, quiet and unaggressive people, find themselves saying at long last: "There's only one way to deal with the [bin Ladens] and [McVeighs].  There's only one way to deal with the [Taliban]. There's only one language these people understand - we say it not joyfully, but reluctantly and sadly - the only thing they understand is the gun."
        To such people I say: Welcome home, welcome to the largest consensus the world has ever known: a consensus between east and west, between capitalist and communist, between mosque, church and synagogue.  All agree that there comes a time when it is just to kill each other.  Welcome home to the consensus on which the world is built.
        Ultimately, we are faced with two choices: to accept the "myth" of the just war, that as a last resort killing is moral, or to accept the "myth" of nonviolence: we have no last resort; killing is never right.  In the first case, sooner or later we will come to the moment when the conditions for using violence are verified, when we reach the "last resort."  In the second case, believing in our "myth," that violence is never justified, having no "last resort," human beings come up with alternatives from the depth of their creativeness....We can and will learn to live together, but only when we have closed off that escape route known as the last resort.     

    -Niall O'Brien, "Making the Myth Real"

Comments (8)

  • bubbadirt@xanga

    I find it ironic that the greatest faith Jesus ever found belonged to a centurion. And the Holy Spirit and salvation was given to the gentiles because of a centurions prayers.


    We can and will learn to live together is the greatest myth of all. It is right to resist violence. But rest assured. you do it with your life. Which is what we should do. But it is a mute point. If evil did not lay down it's weapons for the rightous one, it will not lay down it's weapons for his followers.

  • Pickwick12@xanga

    I don't believe the depth of human creativeness is an answer to the pure evil of an Osama bin Laden.

  • sirnickdon

    @bubbadirt@xanga - I think that 'ironic' is precisely what we're supposed to find it.  Also ironic that the first human (that is, non-demon) in Mark's gospel to correctly identify Jesus as the son of God is a centurion.  The religious Jews miss it; the secular gentiles see it, along with the prostitutes and tax collectors. 

    @Pickwick12@xanga - I think you're right, of course.  I really just posted this quote in preparation for a longer post on the failings of pacifism, and why I can't identify myself with pacifist groups/ideologues.  The United States will have to use violence against its terrorist enemies, and it would be unrealistic to expect the nation-state to use anything but violence when confronted with violence.  (Though, to be fair, it was violent policies of the United States and her enemies that created the pure evil of Osama bin Laden; he's in bondage to sin at the same time his guilty of it; and the same for us and anyone else.)

    Anyway, more to come on the failings of of pacifism.

  • Pickwick12@xanga

    @sirnickdon - You really believe U.S. policies created the evil of Osama bin Laden?

  • sirnickdon

    @Pickwick12@xanga - To the degree that American imperialist policies contribute to the general posturing and disorder of the Middle East (I include extreme Zionism in this), yes, I think some American policies have contributed to his extremism and violence.  We've armed the man in the past, to fight against the Russians. 

    Don't misunderstand me.  I'm saying we've made a mess of things; I'm not saying that bin Laden is any less culpable because of it.  Perhaps it would be fairer to say that our policies exaggerated and redirected his evil, not created it.  The official term for all of this is 'blowback.' 

    This is all my understanding of the situation; I'm not expert on American Middle-eastern policies, and I am certainly open to correction by those who do know.  I am certain, however, that America's violent policies (as well as many other nations' policies) do perpetuate cycles of evil worldwide.

  • Mister_DNA@xanga

    So is the author (and maybe you) for or against this 'last resort?'

    I don't have sufficient context, I guess. Don't know anything about the book and I know I'm not the best at picking up on subtleties.

  • sirnickdon

    @Mister_DNA@xanga - Yeah, basically the guy is saying that once a pacifist has closed off any option for violence, he will find alternatives that previously escaped notice.  Which is true enough.  But he goes beyond that and implies that such creative alternatives will be contagious and eventually the whole world will be converted to pacifism.

    Does this mean you're back into xanga blogging?

    -ND

  • Mister_DNA@xanga

    Interesting. I like the sound of that.

    Nah, no more conventional blogging for Emgee. At least for a while more--maybe when I finish school. This one's more of my prayer/whining@god Xanga. I still use it from time to time, both for posting and for comments.

    Only real reason I'm posting here is because this note (+the book list) is that these weren't on Facebook. ^_^

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